| Ampang, Malaysia | 12 Feb 2017 | Asia Samachar |
Two Sikhs were asked to leave the Gurdwara Sahib Lembah Jaya Ampang for allegedly attempting to disrupt a sermon by Dr Karminder Singh today.
One of them, identified as Malkit Singh and believed to be a retiree from the Malaysian armed forces, was also believed to be involved in a similar incident in the darbar sahib of Gurdwara Sahib Selayang Baru not too long ago.
In this latest incident, one youth wearing a black patka stood up in the darbar sahib of the Lembah Jaya gurdwara while Dr Karminder, a senior Malaysian civil servant and a lay parcharak, was still making his presentation.
He began speaking in a loud voice, disrupting the talk that was already into its 90th minute.
Some members of the gurdwara management committee (GMC) requested the youth to allow the speaker to continue his presentation, but the youth continued to speak in raised voice.
At this juncture, a senior committee member escorted the youth out of the darbar sahib of the gurdwara in Selangor.
When walking back into the darbar sahib, Malkit was alleged to have stood up and confronted the Lembah Jaya GMC president Harbans Singh Gill Kaleke.
“When he refused to sit down and continued to speak loudly, we asked him to leave the darbar sahib,” Harbans told Asia Samachar. “These are not our regular Sanggat members. We have never seen them here before. The Sanggat is united in not wanting such disruptions.”
Dr Karminder Singh spoke on the ‘The Leadership of Sri Guru Granth Sahib in the 21st Century’ at Gurdwara Sahib Lembah Jaya. He had spoken on the same topic a few days earlier at Gurdwara Sahib Klang, which was followed by a Question & Answer session. Here is a full recording of the Q&A session.
The rest of the Sanggat members remained calm and Dr Karminder continued with his presentation.
“We have a lecturer speaking on our platform. If you don’t agree, don’t create a ruckus in the presence o Sri Guru Granth Shaib and the Sanggat,” said Harbans.
Jaswant Singh, the gurdwara’s assistant treasurer, said this was the first such incident at the gurdwara.
One member of the Sanggat alleged that Malkit had signaled the youth in black patka just before the youth stood up to speak while Dr Karminder was in the midst of his lecture.
“I was seated at the back row. I saw what was happening,” he told Asia Samachar.
When contacted, Malkit confirmed that he was at the Lembah Jaya gurdwara but declined to elaborate on the incident over a phone conversation.
Dr Karminder’s lecture session was part of the Family Day Camp organised by the Coalition of Malaysian Sikh Organisation (CMSO) together with the gurdwara and Sikhi Vichar Forum (SVF). The camp series is themed Leadership of Sri Guru Granth Sahib (SGGS) in the 21st Century.
After lunch, Bibi Inderpal Kaur from Toronto, Canada, continued the camp with her lecture.
Such camps have been held at a number of gurdwaras, including Seremban, Kajang and Klang.
In the Selayang incident on 16 Dec 2016, Dr Karminder was giving a talk on ‘Ek Granth, Ek Panth, Ek Maryada’. The talk was twice interrupted by two Sikh men on the pretext of raising questions.
When driving home after that session, two unidentified men on a motorcycle swung a brick at Dr Karminder’s car, in what is believed to be an attempted assault to cow him from sharing his thoughts on the Sikh faith.
‘Ek Granth, Ek Panth, Ek Maryada’, a slogan mooted by the Malaysian Gurdwaras Council (MGC), is meant to promote the centrality of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib (SGGS).
The incident was followed by a number of conflicting reports on the social media, with some versions later turning out to be untrue.
[ASIA SAMACHAR is an online newspaper for Sikhs in Southeast Asia and surrounding countries. We have a Facebook page, do give it a LIKE! Visit our website: www.asiasamachar.com]
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Teaching critical thinking at Sikh family day camps (Asia Samachar, 24 Jan 2017)
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Karminder, MGC get solid support from Selayang gurdwara leadership (Asia Samachar, 2 Jan 2017)
Seremban leadership endorses ‘Ek Granth, Ek Panth, Ek Maryada’ (Asia Samachar, 27 Nov 2016)
Klang gurdwara makes history with launch of ‘Ek Granth, Ek Panth, Ek Maryada’ (Asia Samachar, 24 Nov 016)
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Time to move Gurmat parchaar in Ipoh (Asia Samachar, 4 Nov 2016)
Ek Granth, Ek Panth, Ek Maryada: A logo that says it all (Asia Samachar, 3 Nov 2016)
This exposes the fractiousv nutty thinking abilities of these blankets born the other side of guru JI.Not ever in history of Sikhism has anyone desecrated the Sikh embelms like these gullible rowdies with dornant brain cells.
When Sikh history is re-written in my book,such people will be volumiously termed as the traitors of Gurbani and back stabbers of Guru Gobind Singh starting with thst squint eyed in Cairns to the rowdies of Lembah Jaya.
It iz amazing how these filthy brains are terming their father as porno writer.
Instead one Guru Granth Sahib,they are seeking multiple fathers.
I wonder just how many fathers rhese brainless seek?It begs the intelligent brain to wonder was the multiple father syndrome ,is the biological cause of defective functioning and thinking in Saheb, Malkit and that little boy,jumoing around excitedly,while the liar from sggsa is laughing his butted brains off ,at the silly willingness of this trio fools to b made fools of?
Sad,they destruct their own fathers symbols ,like fools.
the latest antics of these people is to have a profile picture on their FB accounts in which there is a Black CROSS on the EK OANGKAAR !! So far there have NEVER been nay report of any such DESECRATION of the EK OANGKAAR symbol which Guru Nanak ji himself brought down form SACHKHAND. Miscreants have defaced fake posters of so called Guru Pictures etc BUT NEVER defaced the EK OANGKAAR symbol..ever. A FIRST for such desecration honour goes to these people. Sanggats can now judge for themselves how much they really love SGGS/EK Oangkar. The Earlier Dhan Dhan SGGS has been replaced by a DEFACED EK OANGKAAR !!! KUDOS. Gurbani says Sach always comes out…it has revealed these people nefarious designs and ANTI-SIKH, ANTI-SGGS stance. An IMMEDIATE APOLOGY for defacing the EK OANGKAAR symbol is in order.
Oh by the way Atta ji,,are [some] thugs qualified as professors to command the sikhs with their rowdy behaviours and defected mentality to abandon the Psnths existing maryada and change the orders and command of Guru Gobind Singh?
The thugs are not even laymen,but xenophobic misled brainwashed rss thuggish supporters.
They are trying to hijack and hold to ransom the sikh panth and guru sangat with such cliddush and sinister behavior that they do not even have respect for the Guru sangat and Guru Granth sahib.
Moving,the king luar from sggsa needs to re- read history again.
What E.TRUMP says is that…Thete are many bungas around the akal bunga…..Where hetetics in guise of sikhs,but are really udasis and nirmalas …with a top layer of sikhi but commouted brahamnistic mnded …..awsiting with fake abd false books to usurp the position of the Divine Guru Granth ..It is sad and matter of time when these imposters in sijhi wilk destroy sikhism,if sikhs do not arise from their slumber.
Mcauliffe went further to warn thst some sikhs themselves invited these evil destructors and are destroying the religion of NANAK AND Guru GOBIND ….He also questiond the authencity .of oral tradition among Sikhs which some sikh writers did not like..thus they tried to accuse him as christian detractor.
Sad the writers took a wrong line.Had they listened,we wkd nit have these fake laymen bringing fake books.
My challenge to bring thst page from trumos book still stands.
Oh please do open ur eyes and ensure the ears are wax free to be able to hear clearly…..atta ji .
Atar, I am afraid your uncouthly and clodish view is a total display of ignorance.Any Sikh has the right and should remove any miscreant in the darbar sahib, that does NOT follow the spiritual holiness and cordial behaviour required in the darbar sahib.These two misled creatures of humanity’s illness and full of ignorance, undesirable elements had NO right, or an exemption to disrupt the Guru Darbar.
The President Sr Harbans Singh and the sangat have full authority to safeguard the sanctity and agreed protocol of the Guru sahibaan.These two societal ailled vermins , are NOT above the Guru or the sangats’ recognised protocol.As I see , Sr Harbans Singh Ji behaved in a very restrained calm, but assertively, to ensure the khatha went ahead uninterrupted in Guru Darbar.
As for jas khalon-kl da shokra-he cannot even understand Punjabi properly, and that,what he is getting up to will one of these days land him with a police and a criminal record, thus hindering his future studies /or rejection for a passport or entry into any country-being manipulated by ignorant and evil people- as their runner.
If I were you, ATTAR ji, I would at once contact his mother and give her a piece of advice, to restrain her little boy,wearing oversized slippers,and his silly activities,as with such vermins’ company, that he is currently running around with, he will higgledy and piggledy MAR his future-while these two fractious characters and their king manipulative liar- will be sitting in some corner as outcast of the panth.
Those who support vermins like these three are; supporting disruptions and encouraging a rioteous behavior in darbar sahib.
Contrary to above, if more Sikhs acted as coolly and as assertively, as Sr Harbans Singh, we will not see such little boys running around from one end of the country to the other , causing the disruptions when the sangat is in attendance in Guru Darbar.
NO Atta ji, not everyone has the right to stop a katha in darbar sahib, as these two gourmands with grandiose ideas,were doing!
The right and polite way, would have been to approach the president or committee member and express your views or concerns, if legitimate, they can politely go to the speaker and ask him to cut it out at once.Then discuss with the person out of the darbar hall.bar him if need be.to me seeing their behaviour-they had no manners at all in the darbar sahib-let alone the intelligence to approach diplomatically.I see their actions as that of the lowest of the low educationally individuals.
ATTAR ji, Only retired policemen, laymen, and etc countless others also laymen or women, have become Garnthis, and some being called “giani ji”What do you to such when they are doing the rites and practices of path etc in sangat?
Your next statement is not only the tip of a boggy idiocratic reasoning but also self contidictory-” stop a preacher immediately if it is known that it is misleading the sangat”
Well, Attar JI, Karaminder was NOT stopped by the local sangat or the committee, should be the PROOF in the pudding to you, that he was NOT misleading!
ATTAR ji, Only retired policemen, laymen, and etc countless others also laymen or women, have become Granthis, and some being called “giani ji” What do you say to such when they are doing the rites and practices of path etc in sangat?
Ata ji, Sikhi was not built by professional professors,as you have in your mind. It was built by family men and women.Guru Nanak ji practiced grehast-he ploughed his lands.The real Sikhi was built by lay parcharaks, not fake “parcharaks” from SGGSA types.
It was NOT built by fake deredaars or the Malech Gurmukhs from Damdama , or bigamists from patna.
Atta JI, you are lamenting with egoist and lyrical jealousy, to why the sangat wanted Dr Karaminder ji to present in the Gurduara, and not the hall.
Attar ji, can you see and hear with good reasoning and sound knowledgeble mind?This lay man Dr Karaminder talked about contents of Guru Granth sahib.Are you saying Guru Granth sahib is dividing the people, and it is lying?According to your luridly lurking view , the topics from Guru Granth sahib are “not worthwhile”and “dividing” the sangat?
As I can see and have travelled around to observe, atta ji, the division has been caused by the relative of these louts, from SGGSA.That is what has created division in the community-their false books, their lies, fake hukamnama, and the sad disorientation of the sikh youth in the last 7-8 years.The bachiter natak is afake planted book.That is what is causing the divisions.OPEN your eyes wide, standyour ears on the tips,and listen to the noise ….it is obvious you are a supporter of bachiter and falsehood.You rather that Guru Granth sahib stay silent……
Yes, the rackus could have been avoided if these two louts politely did NOT come into the sangat , or patiently awaited until after the session and asked questions in the langgar hall as had been arranged.Sr Harbans acted as any non Corrupted Sikh would act in the hazuri of the darbar sahib, and for which he holds responsibility.
“”The Sanggat there is also not united but just remained silent for not getting involved with some rowdy character members””
atta ji NOW,you are BLUFFING big time, like auta!-The sangat did not get involved and continued to sit silently, because they had FULL CONFIDENCE that their President can handle the situation.They knew that in hazuri of their Guru , they had their President, who can handle the “rowdy characters “as you admit in your own words.
By the way, they were not “members”-another auta from you???
Attar JI, you SHOULD be saying ……please, be reminded that the darbar sahib is a place of spirituality and godliness.Not for rowdies to disrupt. If rowdies disrupt, the committee elected by the sangat has every right to remove such rowdies-The rowdies cannot control or hold to ransom the sangat in the darbar sahib or dictate to the elected committee, however poor the committee may be.These things are discussed outside the Darbar sahib.
Mr Attar, I suggest stop being selective with facts and be a little, sedikit honest, with yourself, you will see things clearly!
Kudos, to the sangat of Lembah Jaya Gurduara sahib, it’s committee,and Sr Harbans Singh ji, who, following the guidance of the Guru Granth sahib,as been explained by layman Dr Karaminder Singh ji, acted in the most humble, cordial and very restrained manner towards the rowdies[as admitted by atta ji].
Guru rakha JI , sach hi chalega, jhooth nahi-sach te sirf Guru Granth sahib wich hn
Harvinder JI, a very sweeping statement, that you are making, without any substantive evidence to support what you are alledging-shows a defective claim with tons of malice.
What do you define as anti Sikh agenda?A very incongruous statement, considering where you stand with falsehood, as your lovable companion, is really the Anti sikh, anti Gurmat, anti sikhi, anti Guru, and anti panthic, as much so as anti gur sangat that had gathered to listen to Ek [Guru] Granth sahib as the EK Guru , with it’s Ek maryada, and message of eko shabad gur vichar-now tell me what is there, that is anti Sikhs, or are you simply incompetent to understand the simple message of the Gurus?
Or have you foully adopted a book on the heresay of a liar -a liar who lied 5 times in the public-and seen on this forum-a liar who now claims that Earnest Trump, a german was invited by the British.He rad the bachiter Ntaka, and told the Britihs that if the Sikhs read the bachiter natak khalsa rule will be established.
1]I have that book of Ernest Trump-[pity I cannot post here]NOWHERE in that book Trump says such.
2]Would you or your guru lear- like to accept a challenge from me?I would invite you or your guru to show us the page or factual evidence where he said such ?According to one Sikh,he has never heard any one lie this pakhandi from Ipoh.
3]Punjabis born, bred and living in the Punjab-90% have never read the book.10 % have seen and read little.From that 10%. only one person perhaps understands the language in that book.
Now here comes a German,who stayed in Punjab for 4 years in all, suddenly is able to read the bachiter natak …I guess Liar from Ipoh, was trying make an idiotic jest of the bachitrii book?
Harvinder, Ji if you don’t respond, and explain what is your idea of Sikhi; as you have labelled the Guru Granth sahib sikhi as anti sikh agenda…., I say you simply learnt to lie like your trampy brother from Ipoh!
Atar ji…..agreed that Dr Karminder singh is just a senior civil servant and just a lay preacher (who has been well accepted at some of the largest Gurdwaras in malaysia – KLANG, SEREMBAN,IPOH and PENANG to name a few. At some of these Dr KSD has been invited again and again by the sangat. By your argument what is the professional standard of the duo causing the ruckus – remember they caused the same ruckus at another major Gurdwara in the same way (just stand up to interrupt the ongoing talk by shouting/chanting) NO QUESTION was ever asked earlier too. Perhaps they can be persuaded to share their QUESTION here in Asia samachar so that sangats can know exactly how professional etc it is. ( As an aside just how many really professional preachers/granthis/ragis do we have in Malaysia t the moment and what are their professional qualifications to be “preachers”. IF a Lareevaar sroop is parkashed, 99% of ragis/granthis will FAIL to even take a hukmnamah- most would not even admit to having ever seen a lareevaar sroop !! thats the “professional standard”.and this is just about READING…giving the MEANINGS and discussing the Gurbani logic, reasoning and Metaphors is a Galaxy away…..sad but true )
2. you said the Sangat at Lembah jaya was NOT UNITED and just sat silenty !! Are you saying everybody should have jumped up instantly and begin a riot ? That would show the sangat is “united”. I would say the LEMBAH JAYA SANGAT showed lots of restraint, and RESPECT for the Presence of AAD SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI MAHARAJ and the speaker on stage by remaining seated and quiet. We have seen many videos of such disruptions in foreign gurdwaras where the riot begins and the SGGS has to be SUKHASSAN !!! Is that what you expected in Lembah jaya and would that meet the requirements of a UNITED SANGAT” ? I hope NOT. The snagat in Lembah jaya showed remarkeable retsraint and patience and only the GMC President had to stand up to remove the duo miscrenats so that the seated snagat could continue to listen to the INVITED SPEAKER.
3. To imply that all the sangat who remained seated and quiet are not aware they are being “Misled” except the duo who came all the way form IPOH to show their knowledge. They all belonged to ONE FAMILY….and I must say this family must be the most advanced in sikhi in Malaysia to have the time and initiative to travel 250 miles to tell LOCAL sangats that the lay preacher they INVITE again and again is misleading them. I would have expected this extraordinary “Family of professional preachers” to be “invited” instead of getting ejected in SELAYANG and again in LEMBAH JAYA.
4 its an accepted word of wisdom – sangat is 21 visveh and Guru is 20 visveh….and the Sangt of SELAYANG and again LEMBAH JAYA proved this by remaining cool and calm despite the ruckus caused by the duo. Provocation was not allowed to get away and insult the Darbar of Aad Sri guru granth sahib Ji maharaj.
5. The Q & A session was LATER…and the best professional way to see how Sangats do it can be seen here. https://youtu.be/dNcYN6d5yrU DR Karminder Singh Q & A recorded at Gurdwara sahib Klang by Mr Morgan Singh and here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a207SyhWEOE&feature=youtu.be
I wonder how knowledgeable are the two about the topic and for some one to say thst Dr Karminder Singh Ji was misleading the Sanggat.
Can the questions by the two be published so that those who are knowledgeable caan provide their guidance.
The current discourse only indicates that both may not be right in their respectve views and thus continue to further divide the already divided Sanggat
SGPC in Akal Takhat may not be of any help as even there the leadership is suspected of being divided due biased views and political influences.
Atar : i agree with Jas Kahlon. No one got the right or show power neither the president Harbans Singh remove a sikh from Guru Ka Darbar for asking questions who could answer. Those who support the action of Harbans also encouraged others to support for his further action to remove more sikhs from Guru ka Darbar. Everyone got the right to stop a preacher immediately if it is known that it is misleading the sangat. Dr Karminder, is only a senior Malaysian civil servant and only a lay parcharak, who his presenting his taughts. His presentation was not of a professor or of any professional body member. So why not have it in a hall or open area? Where Question can be ask immediately as Dr Zakir session. In this lay man session, question immediately can be ask following his talk for not misleading and make round about turn.
Those who accepted this layman talk including the management must know about the topic and understands about the topic that going to be presented weather it is worthwhile or it will divide Sikhs further. Presently as known by Gurdwara management committee there is already dispute in certain Gurdwara where sanggat is not coming to Gurdwara due to attitude and characterless of members. As what mentioned by Harbans told Asia Samachar. “These are not our regular Sanggat members. We have never seen them here before. This ruckus can be avoided if Harbans politely allow him to ask question and not asked him to leave the darbar sahib,”
The Sanggat there is also not united but just remained silent for not getting involved with some rowdy character members.
Please be reminded that Gurdwara management committee (GMC) is a sewadar of the panth and sanggat who attends prayers and must not forget that they should not controlled or ruled any person in Gurdawara.
Kudos to Sardar Harbans Singh kaleke..for a well principled stand on safeguarding the SANCTITY of The AAD SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI Maharaj and the sangatt. Harbans Singh kaleke has demonstrated the decades of sewa done in the Gurus Darbar has inculcated the true virtues of Gurmatt – the ability and moral strength to stand up for whats the RIGHT thing. This brings to mind the great sewa done by the Late Ranjit Singh Kaleke who also never wavered in times of stress like this. All Gurdwara Parbhandaks need to be inculcated with such true gurmatt values as taught to sikhs in the Ilahi Gurbani of SGGS.
Clear cut attempt to disrupt an ongoing sanggat diwan – just as in Selayang Gurdwara sahib and “intentioned” in Ashby Road Ipoh !!! Standing up in sangatt is clear cut insult to the AAD sri Guru granth Sahib Ji maharaj whose DARBAR is being disrupted..even though thinly disguised as an attempt to bulah Fateh or Chant Waheguru etc. This when everyone knew that there was a Proper Q&A session already announced to begin AFTER the conclusion of the Talk. IF the disrupter had waited for a mike to be handed to him aand asked his question when the Q&A is opened to the snagatt……it would have been as per proper guidelines and procedure. BUT this man had no question on the TOPIC of the TALK…he clearly came to DISRUPT and was ejected when he was out of line. They owe the sangatt and the Sri Guru granth Sahib ji an Open apology for the insult to the sangatt and SGGS. In an ordinary Magistrates Court too such UNCOUTH behaviour would result in an immediate CONTEMPT OF COURT proceedings and ejection form the Court..and thats an ordinary human court….what more the Court of the Supreme GURU, AAD SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI MAHARAJ and his Sangatt. There is always only ONE GURU in this Darbar…bringing in a rival is causing divisions and enmity….lets not try and put the blame where its not.
SOME COMMENTS SHARED AT ASIA SAMACHAR FACEBOOK:
Sadool Singh Singh: Not happy with the lecture do not disrupt. Let others listen to the lecture. If there is any misinterpretation or unhappiness the Gurdwara committee is around .. have cha and settle the matter.
Amarjit Kaur: Gurdwara is for everyone but don’t come and disrupt or create a scene in the Gurdwara.
Carol Kaur: Precisely, if you’re not happy about certain issues, approach in a proper manner and trash it out on the side. Why make fools of yourselves and embarrass everyone?
Garmit Kaur Sidhu: Well done Sdr Harbans Singh Gill….we are proud of you. Waheguru bless you.
Jas Kahlon: Harbans Singh should not have remove a sikh from Guru Ka Darbar for asking questions on the said the lecture who could answer. On the said. EK MARYADA. EK PANTH EK GRANTH. Which EK GRANTH are they talking about ? Shame on Mr Harbans Singh for organising this program which divide the Sikhs
Khalsa Singh: he was removed for disrupting the session. If you are asking questions when its not question and answer time – its disruption. For you kind information, the Ek Granth is – Sri Guru Granth Sahib. The so called dasam granth is what is dividing the Sikh panth. Just look at what it is doing.
Sorry to say Sikhs are getting blind from the hooks of kardi see his team and their anti Sikh agenda
Another disgrace by Sikhs on the Sikh community. No need for non-sikhs to disgrace Sanggat with such disrupters who also show lack of tolerance which is one of the Sikhi value
Not out of one controversy and another arises.
Mumber of Gurdwaras increasing bt Sikhi values decreasing.