Dasam Granth: Plucking “Moral” Messages from Thin Air

| Opinion | 11July 2016 | Asia Samachar |



By Karminder Singh

In both my previous articles in this series, I and many of those commenting have asked two simple questions.

  • WHAT are the so called “moral messages that are found in each Chritar” as claimed by Gurmukh Singh.
  • WHERE exactly WITHIN the Charitar are these messages to be found.

Not a single verse from any Chritar containing any “moral message” has thus far been produced.

Loud and repeated claims of “Yes, there are moral messages, IF you read beyond the literal,” is code for “there are no messages, really.”

The inability to answer this first question has led Asia Samachar (AS) reader Gyani Jarnail Singh Arshi to ask: “IF indeed there ARE moral messages, why are they BURRIED under a heap of dung?”

A very un-palatable word indeed.

I suppose Arshi is referring to the contents of 404 tales of sexual depravity that are written in crude, graphic and vulgar detail; presented as abhorrently derogatory to women; and based on accounts as immoral and decadent as one can imagine.

SEE ALSO: Rejoice not sharing only the literal meanings

SEE ALSO: Dasam Granth: Twisting Bones Till They Snap

Apologists however keep claiming that should one dig deep enough, a bunch of sweet smelling roses will eventually be found.

And those who choose to call the spade a spade or the heap as heap – such as DG Teekakaar Dr Rattan Singh are accused of undertaking “purely literal work (that) lacks credibility”!

At this point, one might ask: Why does one HAVE to suffer the sensory revulsions of a heap of dung to get to a rose; when gardens of roses abound?  Must we all develop a penchant for dung?

One wonders what the state of the rose that comes out from under a dung will be, if one does indeed come out after all that digging.

Boisterous claims that “abstinence” and “injunction” are the moral messages of the Chirtars amount to plucking stuff from thin air to justify one’s support for the depravity of the 404 Chritars.

The question remains: Where does one find even one sentence with the word “abstinence” or “injunction” in any of the 404 Chritars?

AS reader Balabir Kaur has aptly asked if those who impose “non-existent” messages upon the Chritars are implying that they are “smarter” than the author(s) of the Chritars.



In fact the narrative of every sexual Chritar has thrown abstinence to the dogs.

A maid sent to call the King for a sexual encounter by his 60th Queen (Chritar No 160 DG page 1048) ends up in her own night-long sexual rendezvous with the King.

Of the 48 verses in this Chritar; a full 39 are devoted to detailed descriptions of the multitude of sexual positions. Five verses provide the setting. And four provide the conclusion that the silly Queen never found out what really happened. Is such a story of abstinence?

A woman having sexual relations with her skinny lover (Chritar No 91 DG page 816) panics when her obese lover shows up at the door. She hides the thin one under the bed and continues her debauchery with the fat one. Abstinence?

A young girl caught by her parents in bed with her lover kills both parents, buries them with the help of her lover and continues her decadent activity. If this Chritar conveys a message of abstinence then one needs mental acrobatics to explain it.

The author of Chritar No 68 (DG page 899) thrusts his tongue 100 times into the rear orifice of a horse and declares he is instantly cured of his disease. He urges the medicine man to do likewise, who does the same and gets cured too.

Isn’t the “immoral message” inherent within the narrative – whosoever wants to be cured must do the same repulsive act? One might be excused for asking” What are CP apologists waiting for, then?



Within the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, EVERY Shabad has its own message. The message is contained within the Rahao verse and in its absence the final verse.

By definition the Rahao is the nucleus verse, the contemplative verse, the verse that contains the gist of the shabad and the verse that ties in all the other verses of the shabad.

Two points are worth noting here.

1. It is the writer of the shabad that DECIDES the message. If there are multiple messages, there will be multiple Rahao verses. There are shabads in the SGGS that contain up to 4 Rahaos.

2. The message is always WITHIN the shabad. No plucking from thin air is allowed or becomes necessary.

Gurmukh Singh, in his attempt to belabor the “literal versus deeper meanings” and perhaps to suggest that the CP paradox of no moral messages also applies to the SGGS; uses Kabir’s shabad “Pheel Rababi Baldh Pakhawaj Keuwa Taal Bejaway. Peher Cholna Gedha Nachay Bhaisa Bhagat Keravay” to pose the question:

Would you say that the meaning cannot be any other than …the Elephant plays the Rebab, the Bull the Pakhawaj…. You’d need to decipher the message if the same is not immediately apparent.

YES, one NEEDS to decipher the message. And to do that one DOES NOT make up one’s own “moral messages.” Or pluck them from thin air and claim “ABSTINENCE” or “ANIMAL RIGHTS” or “INJUNCTION” or “EXTINCTION”!

One goes to the RAHAO VERSE that Kabir HIMSELF wrote WITHIN THE SHABAD in question.

The Rahao Verse is: Raja Raam Kakureya Baney Pakaye. Kineey Bhujenharey Khayee. Rahao.

Meaning: From being imbued in an out of tune / worthless worldly state, my mind has acquired the ripened state of Godly melodies / sweetness. Rare is such a blessing.

The music and dance of the animals mentioned depict an out of tune and worthless state of affairs of (Kabir’s) mind. Such needs to be changed. Message deciphered. From the Rahao.



Why then is it become so UNBECOMGING for anyone to ask: WHERE, WITHIN any of the 404 Chritars, is the “Message Verse?”

Why is it also OBJECTIONABLE to request that the “moral messages” of CP to be neither plucked from thin air nor deciphered by acrobatic twisting?

In my Dasam Granth and Fathers Day article I had argued that the DG couplet in question could ONLY be attributed to nine year old Gobind Rai and Guru Teg Bahadur ji though twisting, extrapolating and adding things to the couplet that don’t exist.

Gurmukh’s assertion that the advice is one of spousal fidelity is defective because nine year old Gobind Rai had no spouse until a decade later.

But the Academy [the Kuala Lumpur-based Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Academy] maintains it was about spousal fidelity and resorts to even more twisting. This time around however, they decided to twist Bhagat Namdev’s shabad from within the SGGS.



The following is the Academy’s response to my Dasam Granth and Father’s Day article.  

“In relation to Fathers Day message in Chritro Pakhyan that was highly misinterpreted and published by some irresponsible people Bhagat Namdev Ji says the EXACT SAME THINGS as an adivice to us in the the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.”

Screenshot from SGGS Academy Facebook page - PHOTO / ASIA SAMACHAR
Screenshot from SGGS Academy Facebook page – PHOTO / ASIA SAMACHAR

There are more twists and fabrications that one could discuss, but four are definitely in order.

Frist, Bhagat Namdev’s shabad does NOT say the EXACT SAME things as the CP couplet. That CP (DG) couplet is about a father telling his son not to bed other women in his dreams. Namdev’s shabad is about spirituality as will be made clear in succeeding paragraphs.

Second, the prologue is plucked from thin air and self constructed. It says “Bhagat Namdev uttered the shabad after being informed that one of the devotee is (sic) having an affair with another woman.” 

NOWHERE WITHIN this shabad is there any mention of ANY DEVOTEE or ANY AFFAIR with ANY woman, and ANY advice to that effect. Bhagat ji is talking about his OWN state of mind.

One wonders if reading too much of Chitro Pakhyan leads one to see nothing other than sexual affairs with another woman even where none exist. Worse, does CP condition one to see spiritually elevating Gurbani as being recited over sexual affairs of devotees?

Third, the words Ghalley Dhanda in the 2nd verse is translated as “having an affair.” Again seeing sex and woman where none exist. Prof Sahib Singh, in Darpan (page 4826), correctly translates these terms as “negative behaviours, lies.”

We use the term “Kum Dhanda” in our everday language to explain work related behaviours.

Fourth, the Shabad is titled LOYALTY. Twisting again. The title of a shabad ought to come from the RAHAO verse. The Rahao Verse in this shabad is: Papee Ka Ghar Agney Mahe. Jalut Rahey Mitvey Kab Nahe. Rahao. 

Translation: This sinful mind of mine (papee ghar) is overcome by greed. The fire of greed does not show signs of getting extinguished (meaning the mind does not want to be CONTENT).

The shabad with the translation as provided by SGGS Academy
The shabad with the translation as provided by SGGS Academy

Readers can see that the word LOYALTY does NOT exist in this Rahao verse. The issue is thus of CONTENTMENT or lack of it.

Within the rest of the shabad, three examples are given by Namdev Ji in explaining the desire of NOT wanting to be CONTENT with things given to him by God.

In verse 1, Bhagat Ji tells his mind to be content with his God-given spouse.

In verse 2, Bhagat Ji says be content with the spirituality into which God has placed you.

In verse 3, Bhagat Ji says be content with the physique that God has blessed you.

In the final verse, Bhagat Ji tells us So Bhaj Par Hai Gur Kee Sarna. Come into the Sharan of God. Coming into His sharan is being CONTENT with all that He has given.

The message, therefore, from the Rahao verse is that “greed, and not being CONTENT with all that is given to me by God” is the root of my spiritual problem.

To say, therefore, that this shabad of Bhagat Namdev is saying the EXACT SAME thing as the CP couplet is utter nonsense.



The Chitro Pakhyaan  of the Dasam Granth is decadence personified. What is wholly immoral in narrative can never be moral in its message. It is as plain and simple as this.

The only way to super-impose morality on the 404 tales of sexual debauchery that constitute the CP is by plucking “moral messages” from thin air, by twisting the sexual narratives or by intentional mis-translations.

No prophet of any faith would want his followers to suffer such depravity. No prophet could thus have authored any such abhorrent writings. Certainly not any of our spirituality elevated and Godly Gurus. Certainly not Guru Gobind Singh ji.


Karminder-mugshot2Karminder Singh Dhillon, PhD (Boston) writes on Gurbani and Gurmat issues in The Sikh Bulletin, USA. He also conducts Gurbani Katha in local Gurdwaras. He is based in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

  • This is the personal opinion of the writer or publication and does not necessarily represent the views of the Asia Samachar.


[ASIA SAMACHAR is an online newspaper for Sikhs in Southeast Asia and surrounding countries. We have a Facebook page, do give it a LIKE. Follow us on Twitter. Visit our website: www.asiasamachar.com]


Rejoice not sharing only the literal meanings (Asia Samachar, 3 July 2016)

Dasam Granth: Twisting Bones Till They Snap (Asia Samachar, 30 June 2016)

Twister to Father’s Day message (Asia Samachar, 25 June 2016)

Father’s Day and Dasam Granth (Asia Samachar, 21 June 2016)

Guru Granth and Dasam Granth: A comparison (Asia Samachar, 12 June 2016)

AWAT: The Terrible Two’s Again? (Asia Samachar, 28 May 2016)

Dasam Granth again (Asia Samachar, 29 April 2016)

Khoj Gurbani at two (Asia Samachar, 29 April 2016)

Q&A with Dr Karminder Singh on Dasam Granth issue (Asia Samachar, 22 April 2016)

MGC fears Akaal Ustat Semagam can split Sanggat, cause disunity (Asia Samachar, 21 April 2016)

‘One Granth One Panth’ call from Global Sikh Council (Asia Samachar, 11 April 2016)

False lure of the past: Lap dogs, watch dogs & attack dogs? (Asia Samachar, 5 April 2016)

When our quirks define us: A parable revisited (Asia Samachar, 10 March 2016)

Questioning faith (Asia Samachar, 26 Feb 2016)

You want to respect Guru, make shabad accessible (Asia Samachar, 14 Jan 2016)


  1. Gurfateh.
    Its highly regrettable that mischievous elements have from Day one been involved in dragging in the clearly Dhur Ki banee ayye jin saglee chint mitayee, sanctified and declared as GURU, the SGGS into this debate. One of the earliest and strongest proponents of “Every single word in DG is Guru Kirt”..a Biharee Lawyer named GS Lamba is on record as saying..” In the Medical World, there are medicines for every known ailment…there are medicines for Hemorrhoids as well as medicines for Sore throat. Clearly SGGS and DG are different as the different medicines…one is for the UPPER (ostensibly meaning higher spiritual message of SGGS) and the other is for the lower base….but he stopped short of saying clearly which Granth is for which part of the body) He went on to say that just as one given medicine for hemorroihds wont be silly enough to use it for his sore throat..another given medicine for his sore throat….Again he stopped short of being transparently clear about which Granth he was referring to as “sore throat” and the other one. As unpalatable and reprehensible as this sounds, the attempt to declare Bhagat Namdev jis DHUR KI BANEE divinely inspired GURBANI as being EXACTLY the same as CP seems to be regurgitating the GS Lamba medicine logic.
    Such attempts to defame the SGGS by bringing its role and status already accepted by all Sikhs as the Sole Guru and the repository of the One and Only DHUR KI BANEE AYEE JIN SAGLEE CHINT MITAYEE as exactly same as compositions of the nature of CP must be resisted by all Sikhs. SAGLEE CHINT means exactly what it says..ALL CHINT MITAYEE !!! No need to go elsewhere to look for “exact” or “not exact” messages.

  2. wjkk wjkf,

    On the shabad that Bhagat Namdev ji, Ghar ki naar tiageh andah, let’s look at the meaning in Gurbani’s view. Bhagat Kabeer ji says on ang 484, tumeh to kant, naar hum soi ( You, Lord are the Husband, and i am the jeev-isteri-the bride). Here, its clear the bride is the jeev (we wouldnt say soul because the soul is the spark of God, the joth). That is clear.

    Back to Bhagat Namdev ji’s bani. Ghar here refers to the body, and in the body, there is the jeev, which is called ghar ki naar. This naar requires the nourishment of Naam, as we hear, akah jivah visreh mar jaho. The fool (man), forgets about the jeev in the body and hugs the outside naari (par naari), which is another woman outside. And who is this woman? well, it’s Maya.

    Simple words, the mortal forgets about the jeev isteri which is in him and is totally mesmerized and bewitched by Maya outside.

    In fact, the next line says about the viciousness of Maya, and how we get stuck to it, like a parrot.

    Simple shabad to be seen in the totality of Gurbani.

  3. follow your instincts on what is right and wrong. people with their own interpretations can write anything they please.

  4. What is equal to the Sri Guru Granth Sahib? Nothing can equal Tur Ki Bani Ai. I am very sad to note that verses of The Guru Granth are being compared to writings of unknown authors and in the most depraved way. May Waheguru bless these misled people.